Suits. And BSG.

[my_daroga]

With the passing of Yves Saint Laurent, this is either the best or the worst time to mention one of my biggest, and most inconsequential, pet peeves:

I hate the word pantsuit.

Don't get me wrong--I love women in suits. For my money, there's not much hotter than mid-series Scully in a dark (expensive) suit. But I have never understood why, when "suit" means "jacket and trousers," we need a new word to specify that this one's worn by a female. Yes, I get that suits for women used to be exclusively skirt-oriented. If you weren't some kind of rebel. So maybe it was necessary to specify--decades ago. As it is, since it appears to me that as far as business attire goes it's all good, it really bothers me. Now that women are "allowed" to wear suits, can't we just call them that? I can't help but feel that the word now implies something about the wearer--that "pantsuit" is code for "woman playing a man's game."

Plus, it's just ugly. The word "pant."

Yeah, there are better things to be angry about, and I don't really feel oppressed or anything. But it's one of those things that rankles when I hear it, like getting my sock bunched in my shoe.

---

On a completely different note, we have now finished Battlestar Galactica season 3, and loved it. Yeah, there were a few slow episodes in the middle, but they were better than the slow ones from S2, and I think watching it all in a batch of a few weeks really alleviated what everyone who watched it as it came out hated. So now the issue is--wait for all of S4 to air because we know we usually like things better in bulk, or head on in on the high of the finale?

Comments

[filmnoir6.livejournal.com]

I always thought a "suit" was just a suit--for women and men. *shrug* heh

[my_daroga]

Have you listened to the campaign at all? "Pantsuit," referring to Clinton's preferred outfit, is everywhere.

[filmnoir6.livejournal.com]

I have no use for Mrs. Clinton as a candidate so no I haven't heard it said. (The word is probably bandied about by her own campaign...Ack! Exposed bias! :p)

Besides, I'm all in agreement with you Ms. D about the hotness of Scully in a suit! heh

[my_daroga]

*needs Scully icon like whoa*

She uses it herself, which was the second to last time I heard it on the radio in the past few weeks. I don't care what I think about the candidates, I listen to all of them.

[filmnoir6.livejournal.com]

Not surprising about Mrs. C

Yeah you do need a Scully icon. Actually, I thought you did have one that was a close-up of her face.

[my_daroga]

I have this one, which is redhead general.

[filmnoir6.livejournal.com]

Ah, she's only a small bit of it.

Feel free to borrow if you like the ones I have.

[my_daroga]

Thanks! I think I want the one in the tophat, though.

word games a go-go.

[mr-dean-show.livejournal.com]

think about it..
a Pant Suit is a Sweat-er.

Ewwwww....

Re: word games a go-go.

[my_daroga]

Proof that everything can sound gross.

Re: word games a go-go.

[mr-dean-show.livejournal.com]

yep..
How do you feel about the following..

Culottes
Balaklava
Cummberbund
spats

spats sounds rude doesn't it...

Re: word games a go-go.

[my_daroga]

Culottes is the one I most object to. The others sort of go with what they are, in my opinion, and don't bother me as much. Though I've always thought it was really strange, calling that thing a balaklava.

[inlaterdays.livejournal.com]

I thought a pantsuit involved pants tailored for women (usually with single-needle stitching, flimsy material, and buttoning on the opposite side to men's), which I hate because they are always too big in the hips.

I don't wear pantsuits but I do wear men's trousers when I can find them small enough.

But I could be wrong.

[my_daroga]

But I would assume that a man buying a suit and a woman buying a suit would both buy something that fit their body type, so why make a distinction about which body type that is in the name? So you would say that a woman is only wearing a "suit" if it's off the men's rack?

I just assumed that a pantsuit was what you call a suit made for women. Most women won't fit in a man's suit, so it's sort of necessary to make them for women. I mean, mens' suits are allowed various styles of tailoring, with various fits.

[inlaterdays.livejournal.com]

I think it's for historic reasons, as you said. You make a good point though!

Men's clothes are always better-made than women's too; it bugs me.

Also, I'm old, and in the 70s "pantsuit" seemed like it referred to a specific style.

[my_daroga]

I don't really pay attention to how clothes are made, so in my mind pantsuit is an unnecessary distinction to draw that makes me think someone's trying to say something. But then, I don't pay a lot of attention to actual clothes, so there may be more wrapped up in it than I know.

I wouldn't really be able to wear mens' pants. Actually, guys with actual asses have trouble, too.

[my_daroga]

PS--I am talking about SEXY TIGHTISH PANTS of course.

[phantoms-siren.livejournal.com]

Ok, in the UK pants means KNICKERS!! So wearing a pants suit to work would be very risque. You'd either get fired or promoted on the spot.

'Trouser suit' exists as a term but people only use it if they're know to wear skirt suits. i.e. I own 5 suits, all with trousers and everyone I work with knows when I say suit I mean a suit with trousers. Whereas 'Princess' wears skirts most of the time* so she'd say trouser suit to specify what she meant.

The need to distinguish probably started in the 1920s when women did wear mens suits. There are few things in the history of fashion hotter than flapper in a mans dress suit. yum. I don't think its a necessary distinction now.


*because she's prettier and better than me.

[my_daroga]

Obviously, the specific wording is native to the US. But I hear it a lot, and yes, I think it's outdated and unnecessary. I don't think anyone would be confused if I said, "Tomorrow I will wear a suit" and then I came in with trousers. No one would say, "OMG where is your skirt?"

[tkp.livejournal.com]

I actually love the word "pant". I love how it's what dogs do and it's men's underwear in Britain. And it just sounds dirty to me, like "fuck".

But I understand your issue with pantsuit.

[my_daroga]

It just sounds ugly, not dirty, to me. The nasal quality. Paaannt. But my primary objection is the unnecessary distinction.

[stefanie-bean.livejournal.com]

For women, it's probably called a "pants suit" to distinguish it from a woman's suit with a skirt. The wiki article on suits has a picture of 1894 women's "walking suits," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Walking_suites_1894_Delineator.jpg) which are skirted (obviously, for the era.) The wiki article says:

The earliest women's suits were riding habits, which consisted of a tailored coat or jacket and matching skirt from the 1660s. Practical and sturdy, riding habits were worn not only on horseback, but also for travel and other daytime pursuits. Suits not intended for riding appeared in the later 19th century. Both riding habits and walking suits reflected the skirt and sleeve styles of the day.

In the first half of the 20th century, the skirted suit became the common daytime city costume for women, in the workplace and out; dressmaker suits featured softer fabrics and "feminine" details, and cocktail suits were worn for semi-formal occasions in mid-century.

Here's an example of 1920s Chanel suits (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74796429@N00/243767369/).

From the 1940s: a skirted suit pattern. (http://www.tias.com/stores/obv/pictures/patkk5a.jpg) During WW II, pattern companies sold patterns for women to convert men's suits into women's suits - with skirts *or* pants.)

Here is a 1940s pattern (http://photographs.wallypop.net/pantsuit1envelope.jpg) for a pants suit - distinguished from a woman's dress suit by its pants. So that's my guess - it wasn't called a "pants suit" to distinguish it from men's clothes, but to show that it wasn't a skirted suit.

Probably tl;dr, I know ... ; )

[my_daroga]

It's not tl;dr; it's interesting. But I tried to address that when I mentioned that women used to wear skirts exclusively and the need for distinction was there. I just don't think it is anymore, and the word bothers me. It's a holdover I want to erase, because holding it over implies to me that there's still a need to point out that a woman's wearing pants. The horror! I want to be beyond that--and I think we are. But the word lingers.

[scarletsherlock.livejournal.com]

I've never thought about the word "pant" before, but it is a bit unpleasant. Hmm.

I watched BSG in bulk too, just before S4 started, and now I'm watching them in "real time". It's very difficult. I sort of wish I had waited, because every week I'm going, "Just stfu and tell me who the final Cylon is!" But there is some great stuff going on.