Pronunciation

[my_daroga]

Per a conversation last night, I have a poll about pronouncing proper names depending on whether you're going by origin or by local preference or whatever. Some discussion under the cut.

[Poll #1118385]


Nevada. Of Spanish origin. Mr. Daroga believes it ought to be pronounced in the Spanish fashion, though the people (and government) of the state itself react very negatively to that pronunciation. The struggle: whether to hold true to the name's origin and look ignorant to the people who live there, or give in?

Bret. On the show, everyone but his countrymen call him "Bret," as it's spelled. Even when Jemaine is playing David Bowie. Mr. Daroga's position is that since it is his name and he says "Brit," one should attempt to pronounce it in the same fashion. I am not so sure; yes, it's his name, but isn't it like "faking" a New Zealand accent, and wouldn't that be grating, too?


What other names have this problem? Notre Dame, for instance. Any other favorites?

Comments

[inlaterdays.livejournal.com]

What is the difference between VAH and VAA?

[androidlovesong.livejournal.com]

vah as in father, vaa as in laugh

[my_daroga]

Damn. I knew I'd get in trouble, here.

VAH is like "ahhhh" when you're at the dentist.
VAA is like the a in "cat."

[androidlovesong.livejournal.com]

Well, I grew up in Nevada, so I suppose my answer is biased. I've also never really registered Bret's name, but I generally try to pronounce things in the way the locals do (if it's a place) or the person does (if it's a name). While places like Nevada and Amarillo, TX have Spanish origins, the fact is that they've become American names simply by a long history of usage, so I call them Nev-aaa-da and Ama-rilll-oh. I think saying regular old common nouns in an accent different than your own i.e. aluminum/aluminium is a bit pretentious, although I do it myself sometimes after hanging out with someone with a different dialect. I am a language-sponge.

[my_daroga]

I do that too--pick up accented pronunciations. I try not to, even though I *like* ad-VER-tis-ment better than ad-ver-TISE-ment. For instance.

It annoys me when Spanish (or whatever language) names are said wrong. Like Versailles Ohio. Versails. BER-lin New Hampshire. But on the other hand, you look like an idiot pronouncing them "right."

[phantoms-siren.livejournal.com]

isn't there a place called Cairo pronounced as Kay-ro somewhere in the US?

Aluminum/Aluminium isn't a pronounciation thing its a getting-things-right-and-not-being-lazy snobbery thing, all the other elements in that section are -ium so it looks nicer if they all end that way :p

[my_daroga]

Aluminum/Aluminium isn't a pronounciation thing its a getting-things-right-and-not-being-lazy snobbery thing, all the other elements in that section are -ium so it looks nicer if they all end that way

So says the Brit. ;)

[agentdanak.livejournal.com]

i think that's in illinois (which gets arfed all the time).

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

BER-lin's not the only one in New Hampshire. Near it is MY-lin, spelled Milan. More than once I've made reference to the BER-lin Wall. D'oh.

In Missouri there's a town named Pomme de Terre (yes), pronounced POM-li-tar.

I'm totally not with Mr. D. on this one. If I'd grown up with a New Hampshire accent I'd be saying my name "Kenner", but it would freak me out if a Californian did.

But then again there's the local phenomenon of French-Canadian surnames. Some families pronounce them the Quebecois way, some families (like mine) use an Anglicized pronunciation. They're both right, and I answer to either.

[my_daroga]

I heard once that Berlin NH used to be pronounce "correctly," but they changed it during WWI. Or II. It sounds too good to be true, really.

Mr. D's been arguing for "Brit" for weeks. And I can kind of see it from a logical standpoint, but I don't think logic has much application. I think perception counts for more, here.

[phantoms-siren.livejournal.com]

NUH-var-duh

Not-rah Dar-mm

All the New Zealanders I know get offended if you pronounce things the way they do cos it looks like you're taking the piss, one compared it to stuttering at a stutterer. Like some languages don't have certain sounds or cant distinguish between things like R and L, you wouldn't use Engrish when talking to someone with a strong Chinese accent right?

Problem words/names-
Vincent Van Gogh
Sabotage
Saddique
Waqas
Wath Upon Dearne
Rotherham
Worcestershire
anywhere else in the UK ending with Shire

[my_daroga]

NUH-var-duh

What?

As for Bret, Mr. D claims that since we both speak English and *can* pronounce things the same way, we should follow NZ pronunciation with names. But I agree with you.

[phantoms-siren.livejournal.com]

Nevada around here would be pronounced with an r and the emphasis on the N.

Just out of interest how would you pronounce-

Wath Upon Dearne
Rotherham
Worcestershire

[my_daroga]

Oh yeah, I meant to tell you I have *no* idea how to pronounce the last half of your list above. But here goes:

Wath Upon Dearne I'm sure is some strange compound one-word type answer, but I have no way of knowing what it is so if pressed I'd have to pronounce everything as written.

Rotherham: My guess is to either leave out one/both of the hs (ROT-er-am, ROTH-er-am?) or the middle syllable (ROT-am). Maybe it's not that complicated?

Worcestershire: WUS-ter-sheer.

[misfitina.livejournal.com]

Appalachia as "apple-ate-cha" makes me nauseous.

But normally, i pronounce with regard to be understood, not feeling correct, so audience is a factor.

The lovely Lebanese woman says "jie-roh", i'm not going to be a not and say 'geeroh' :)

[my_daroga]

How do you pronounce Appalachia, out of curiosity?

And being understood has a two connotations: both for comprehension and for, let's say, solidarity--do you want to come off as pretentious or local, for instance?

I say "yur-oh" when I do say it, though I don't know where that comes from.

[misfitina.livejournal.com]

Apple-at-cha - i didn't run into the alternate form until i began academic work in the region and it's used by other academics and more mid-western bending.

i'm more concerned with comprehension on a base level, unless the term is significant for solidarity, as with using a colloquial term or jargon.

i'm not convinced there is one way to pronounce the sammich :)

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

i'm not convinced there is one way to pronounce the sammich :)

It's pronounced "that". I point to the menu and say I'll have "that". ;-)

Problem solved.

[agentdanak.livejournal.com]

i say, usually nuh-vad-uh. does that make sense? although if i am singing about mulder, it does become nu-vaa-duh, i think. you know?

anyway, i have a few.

oregon o-rig-un? i have issues typing out how i say stuff. mostly, just know it's not or-a-gon.

illinois. (noy, not noise). washington. not warsh. nur.

and, the best one: bourbonnais. the city has a pronunciation key on the godforsaken sign, dammit. it is not bur-bone-iss. fuckers.

(yeah, that last one really always drove me up a wall)

the newest is 'lyra'. on my livejournal and my school email, i go by lyra. however, i pronounce it 'lir-a' and not 'lie-ra'. but that one i forgive people for, since it could really go either (ee-ther, aye-ther?) way.

[my_daroga]

i say, usually nuh-vad-uh

I think that's what I also meant by ne-VAH-duh, I just put the d in a different place.

I think I say ore-a-gone. lol yankee.

Never heard of Bourbonnais.

As for lyra, I've always said "leer-uh"/"lir-a" (I think we mean the same thing) but then that Golden Compass movie came out and annoyed me by being "LIE-ruh." But I'm mostly over that, now.

[agentdanak.livejournal.com]

bourbonnais is a town in illinois (woah, both french!), and sounds correctly like bourbon with a big fat a on the end. or if you are stereotypical canada man, 'bourbon, eh!'

you get the idea.

and yes, lyra is lir-a to fit the rest of the name: lyra cole. it is not lie-ra cole :P that'd sound incredibly silly, yes?

but, i attribute the weird mispronunciation to folk just not getting the pun. which makes me nod my head knowingly whilst inside my head i am weeping for humanity.

*grin*

[my_daroga]

Yeah--in your case, I definitely got the pun. In Lyra from Golden Compass, I thought the pun of "lie-ruh" for a liar was too obvious. Guess I was wrong, there.

[malica77.livejournal.com]

The one that drives me nuts is the pronunciation of the baked treat "Scone". It must be a Northern Welsh pronunciation, but in my family it has always rhymed with "gone", not "cone". I keep on having to explain to people over and over that I'm not "wrong".

With so many French names up here, we do see a lot of names being pronounced two different ways -- KWUH-bek or Kay-bek (Quebec) for example, but not to mention the Quebecois French of the habitants of Quebec vs the anglophones who were taught Parisienne French in school growing up, verses those who can't speak a lick of French in any flavour who trip over saying "Omelette" (see "My parents").

[my_daroga]

I don't know if I've ever heard "scone" pronounced that way. That's interesting. But I can believe it, thinking about the language.

It certainly must be interesting where you live. Do you have any observations about whether multiple pronunciations are more accepted, or divisive?

[malica77.livejournal.com]

In Ontario it's not a big deal -- we'll accept a few different ways of saying it. Although I quietly cringe when I hear over Anglicized pronunciations of French place names. I suppose the passive aggressor in me could have been Anglicizing Welsh place names back to my parents to drive a point home. Once you cross into Quebec it would be a whole different story though; they are very proud and protective of their language so their way is the only correct way of pronunciation. That suite me though -- I think we should use the native pronunciation whenever possible.